God vs Evolution

[alextemplet]

Wow, you definitely win the prize for the most amazing manner of twisting my words around into something completely different from what I was talking about.

You are right; one cannot prove that God does not exist. Leave it at that.

[genovese]

I'm sorry if I appear to twist your words, I can understand that to be annoying for you. But you do have to take some of the blame:

When you come out with authoritative statements such as "God is eternal, and thus always has been around, without having been created", then unless you can put forward some proof, such assertions are baseless in a scientific forum. You would no doubt attack me as being unscientific if i were to say that "Father Christmas is a fact." In fact I would be worried if no one challenged me if I were to make such a claim. Therefore in my eyes you do put yourself up as a target for making remarks which cannot be corroborated.

I am sure that you are aware of all this anyway and that you would probably be upset if no one were to challenge your views.javascript:emoticon(':)')

[alextemplet]

I would also expect that in a scientific forum, there would be an understanding of what can and cannot be verified. Any statement about God thus falls into this category. My statement was in response to a question about where God came from. Obviously for this question to be addressed, we must first hypothetically assume that God does exist, and then I answered that question based on my faith. I assumed that it could be taken for granted that we were speaking hypothetically and based on faith more than science. What I perceived as twisting my words around was when you took a non-scientific statement and addressed it using scientific reasoning.

Of course I can agree with you that I deserve some of the blame, as I took it for granted that my statements would be understood to not be scietnific in nature, and I failed to clarify that. Mea culpa.

[babelfish]

It's logically impossible to prove that something doesn't exist.

Actually...

[kcnq1ot1]

I couldn't read the all posts but I wanna write my thoughts.

I think I believe in God. I'm not sure, in fact, sometimes I find it very funny to believe in something, "believe" is not a suitable word for a scientist. I just wanna know something not just believe. But this is a very big issue, God! If everybody would know the god and would remember the life before birth it would be so meaningless. What will we do? Such an absurd life, everything is clear, everybody knows what to do, then what? Just do the responsibilities, no risk, no curiosity, no difference, no loss no gain...
It must be mysterious and difficult to find God. It requires really big efford. It is like a game maybe, I don't know, I'm just a human being.
But you don't need to "see" the evidences to "know" something. Sometimes the problem is so huge that it is very very difficult to analyze and get the correct result. It is just like that. There are so many clues but we want simple and clear answers.

I'm a molecular biologist, before I start to study genetics I have been in different beliefs. I mean, when I started to think about God or more generally the meaning of life, I find myself in that I'm an atheist. Then I started to read the books of some religions. I believed something.
when I started to study genetics everything I learned made me think again. There are so many questions. One may say that we just doesn't know the answers so we say God exists because we don't understand lots of things. Whenever science find the answers we see that there is no God. I don't know. But at this point it seems to me that there is a God.
nobody needs to create God. there is no time there. It is something meaningless, who create god, it is an elemantary level question. Now we know relativity, there is no time in fact. Our conscious sense it like that, it just spend the energy of "time" and think like, oh yeah it is passing, no! nothing is passing..

sorry for my long reply

[genovese]

kcnq1ot1, I'm sure you are not the only one to feel like you describe.

When one can explain something, one feels great at the achievement. When one cannot explain something one is at a loss and less happy with oneself. What better way to cheer oneself up than by attributing the unknown solution to God's mystical ways? You then do not have to think about the problem anymore and you feel relaxed again.

[alextemplet]

For me, belief is not about explaining what I cannot explain. It is about a very personal relationship, friendship even, with a creator whom I know through experience exists. I'm not quite sure how to describe it but I guess that gets it pretty close.

[Phil Baber]

Religion is an attempt to justify what one can't explain. Humans are a very small (read negligible) cog in the machinary of the universe. God is a human construct to answer all the questions of existence, but what makes humans believe we should be able to answer these questions? It smacks of arrogance to me.

Phil Baber

[Phil Baber]

alextemplet — that you KNOW exists? So are you saying that I am some how incapable of perceiving this existence? Or is this existence a fabrication of your own mind? In which case you are acknowledging that the existence of God is completely speculative.

[mith]

I think we should evaluate where this thread is going and whether or not this should be in the evo forum.

[woolleyy]

do we have a fight forum? Cause this looks like it could get dirty...

[mith]

yes, it's called off topic